Compassionate Leadership: Fostering Vulnerability, Trust and Joy in the Workplace
In this episode of Auto Talk with Jaz, host Jazmine Booker continues her conversation with Dr. Rob Lion, focusing on his "Trust and Alignment Framework." This framework is designed to help leaders and managers understand how to better connect with and meet the needs of their teams.
The framework is represented visually as a car's drive shaft system with four wheels, each representing a key leadership attribute:
- Consistency - helps people anticipate leaders' reactions and builds trust
- Accountability - holding everyone to the same standards and having difficult conversations when needed
- Connection - recognizing people as individuals and connecting with them appropriately
- Safety - ensuring psychological safety so people feel secure speaking up without fear of retribution
When these four attributes are deployed effectively, it leads to meaningful work, compassion, vulnerability and trust among the team - the human essence that drives the actual work getting done.
Dr. Lion and Jazmine discuss the importance of leaders showing their own humanity and vulnerability to connect with their teams. They also touch on giving people grace when they are struggling and working together as a community to support one another through challenges.
Dr. Lion's key piece of advice is to never stop learning - be a lifelong student and stay curious. This builds self-awareness, patience and the ability to connect with diverse people.
Links referenced in this episode:
Transcript
Welcome back, guys, to Auto Talk with Jazz.
Jasmine Booker:I am your host, Jasmine Booker, and we are back with our part two with Dr.
Jasmine Booker:Rob Leone.
Jasmine Booker:If you didn't, if you missed the first part, you missed a ton of great information, but you are able to go back and listen to it.
Jasmine Booker:So definitely do so before you miss before.
Jasmine Booker:Before you listen to the second one, obviously.
Jasmine Booker:Now we're going to go over the second framework, which is amazing.
Jasmine Booker:And again, I love both of them just because they have pictures of cars.
Jasmine Booker:Actually, one of them is an acronym that spells car.
Jasmine Booker:So that's the reason why I love that one as well.
Jasmine Booker:But again, sit back, relax, take notes.
Jasmine Booker:We are going to have the pictures of both of the frameworks on the social media.
Jasmine Booker:That way you can get to them.
Jasmine Booker:And also if you have any questions or you just want to figure out how to better your organization, definitely reach out to Rob at his website, which we will link down below.
Jasmine Booker:So without further ado.
Jasmine Booker:And so now I would like to go to the other one, which is, I believe the.
Jasmine Booker:Sometimes my phone, like I'm pulling it up.
Jasmine Booker:So that way I can see the trust and alignment framework.
Jasmine Booker:This one I know we talked a lot about because it's actually more geared towards the leadership, the manager role and what it is that they should do as far as doing that self, like going into their self and saying, okay, what is it that I want to be, I guess as a manager to my team and what is it that I can do to help make my team feel these four things?
Jasmine Booker:And what is it that I'm good at what I'm not good at type situation.
Jasmine Booker:So if you can just kind of go a little bit into that framework.
Rob Leone:Do you want to explain what it looks like?
Jasmine Booker:Yes.
Jasmine Booker:So again, I've already stated anything that deals with cars I love.
Jasmine Booker:And so this is actually the drive, this drive shaft system.
Jasmine Booker:So it has the four tires or the four wheels, and it actually has like the rear differential, the front different, the transfer case.
Jasmine Booker:Like, it actually has the drive shaft system, the drive axle system.
Jasmine Booker:And it actually talks about like how each wheel or how each axle works together to move the car forward in a way.
Jasmine Booker:And I looked at it and was like, you already in the previous model talked about the car.
Jasmine Booker:So I was already like, excited because I saw that first.
Jasmine Booker:But when I saw this, it was like, you can even use this for yourself.
Jasmine Booker:And so I was like, oh my gosh, we got another car.
Jasmine Booker:And so that's what I love about this one.
Rob Leone:Terrific.
Rob Leone:Okay, so thanks for that intro.
Rob Leone:That helps so let me back up a little bit.
Rob Leone:What do I do?
Rob Leone:In addition to teaching students, my work is trying to demystify stuff and to take concepts that are really squishy and tough to deal with and present them in a way that at least I have a model to work off of.
Rob Leone:Not a model.
Rob Leone:Where do we begin?
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:All of us, like, if we don't have any education or framework in terms of leadership.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:We know that oftentimes people get promoted into leadership roles, but they don't have any of the skills or the capabilities to be there.
Rob Leone:They might have been a high performer, but it doesn't mean high performance equals leadership acumen.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:So I like models.
Rob Leone:That's what I base my whole program around for my students.
Rob Leone:That's what my life is kind of like.
Rob Leone:If I can't figure it out, I go to a model first.
Rob Leone:Then I know how to navigate it to move forward.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:So what we have here, we have four wheels.
Rob Leone:And each wheel identifies a leadership attribute or a leadership consideration.
Rob Leone:And this is intended for leaders and managers to have help them better understand if they deploy these four pieces, they get these four wheels moving.
Rob Leone:They're probably more likely to connect with the needs and the interests of their people.
Rob Leone:So what are those four?
Rob Leone:So the first one is consistency.
Rob Leone:Why is consistency important?
Rob Leone:Well, what we do, and even young and early on in our life, we learn to watch patterns, and patterns help us predict and anticipate people's behavior and decisions.
Rob Leone:So when you have a team, consistency is important because what it does, in a way, is if you're consistent, it empowers your people to understand how you might react to both good news and bad news.
Rob Leone:Now, I'm not saying that you're not crunchy or kind of a jerk if you're crunchy or a jerk, consistently crunchy or a jerk.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:That's what I'm trying to say is that don't kind of ebb and flow like nicest pie at one point when things are good, but then fly off the handle when things are bad.
Rob Leone:Like, try to manage that so that you're consistently at that same energy line for the most part, generally speaking.
Rob Leone:Because what it does is it helps people understand.
Rob Leone:Look, I made a mistake.
Rob Leone:Maybe I broke something on a car that I, you know, it does those little plastic tabs and removing the dash and now it won't stay back on.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:You know what I mean?
Rob Leone:So, and I have to admit to it because it someone's going to figure this out, that when it's flopping around when the air conditioner is going.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:So if I feel like my boss is going to chew me out and throw me under the bus and bully me and belittle me, I might take the chance to having a dissatisfied customer and hopefully they get off the shop floor, they get it out of the lot and they take it and they don't learn about it until months down the road and they're not sure what happened.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:So what we're essentially doing is we're like hiding skeletons in the closet or sweeping things under the rug.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:Whereas if you know, at least Rob has your back regardless and I let you make small mistakes and we learn from them, you know, and we try to minimize the big mistakes.
Rob Leone:That's a lot more inviting with, especially with a young new technician.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:Like someone that's new that is going to make mistakes.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:We actually normalize it.
Rob Leone:We talk about it when we bring them in and say, look, I've been, I remember making mistakes.
Rob Leone:I know you don't want to, you will.
Rob Leone:And I'm here to help and my door is always open, trying to make it inviting.
Rob Leone:So consistency is the first one.
Rob Leone:The next one's accountability.
Rob Leone:And what that means is helping people remain accountable.
Rob Leone:So we've all worked in work environments where someone gets away with non desirable.
Rob Leone:You know, we used to call it murder.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:Get away with murder.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:Not the best, but they.
Rob Leone:Yeah, yeah, but they're not.
Rob Leone:Maybe they're not.
Rob Leone:Maybe they're cutting corners.
Rob Leone:They're.
Rob Leone:They're doing something or coming in late and the rest of the staff has to pick up their slack.
Rob Leone:Whatever it is, the leader's not holding a person accountable or the entire team accountable.
Rob Leone:You have to keep that in mind.
Rob Leone:You have to hold everyone accountable the same that you just don't pick.
Rob Leone:Well, I, I'm more comfortable talking to Jasmine, so I'm going to hold her accountable more because of that.
Rob Leone:That's not right either.
Rob Leone:But what happens is we train people on how they behave based on how they watch us hold other people accountable.
Rob Leone:So if I am not having difficult conversations with someone and not holding them accountable for when they're late or making mistakes, then the other staff starts to look at this and go, huh, well, Rob doesn't have a backbone.
Rob Leone:Maybe I'm going to start taking longer lunches or calling in sick more or cutting corners on my job or whatever you want to call it.
Rob Leone:So accountability is a huge factor for organizations.
Rob Leone:The other thing is the byproduct of this.
Rob Leone:When you do hold people Accountable.
Rob Leone:Accountable is that you're more likely to generate trust.
Rob Leone:And that seems counterintuitive.
Rob Leone:People would be like, well, no, if I'm holding people accountable, people won't trust me.
Rob Leone:Well, let's be clear.
Rob Leone:I think we are our own biggest critics and we know when we're skirting corners, we're cutting corners.
Rob Leone:Now I don't hold you accountable, and you know, you cut the corner, and I know you cut the corner.
Rob Leone:That erodes your confidence in me.
Rob Leone:It erodes your respect in me.
Rob Leone:Right.
Jasmine Booker:Or even your confidence in.
Jasmine Booker:In you.
Jasmine Booker:Because it's like, if you're going to let me skirt around this, exactly how many other things and how many other things are you allowing everybody else to skirt around?
Jasmine Booker:That is way more important than me just coming in late.
Rob Leone:Exactly, exactly.
Rob Leone:So accountability and consistency are key and huge.
Rob Leone:One of the other tires.
Rob Leone:Connection.
Rob Leone:We talked about that in motivation.
Rob Leone:It's the same thing is true for people in the workplace.
Rob Leone:They need connection.
Rob Leone:They need to have a connection with a supervisor.
Rob Leone:Doesn't have to, like I said, doesn't have to be super emotional.
Rob Leone:But I recognize you for who you are.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:Earlier I said I need to handle everyone the same as it relates to accountability.
Rob Leone:Same means relative to the person I'm working with.
Rob Leone:Same means consistent energy across all people.
Rob Leone:But how I connect with you might be a little bit different than how I connect with Fred and that messaging that occurs.
Rob Leone:Same thing with checking in on a car.
Rob Leone:How I check in with Fred would be different than you would be different than Renee.
Jasmine Booker:Right.
Rob Leone:So connection is super important.
Rob Leone:The last item is safety.
Rob Leone:And we often think about this as physical safety.
Rob Leone:But what we've done is we've done a really good job monitoring, like with osha, physical safety, ppe.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:Stuff like that.
Rob Leone:What I'm talking about here is actually psychological safety.
Rob Leone:And what psychological safety is, is feeling safe, feeling secure, feeling like you could speak up and share a dissenting opinion without being held.
Rob Leone:What was I going to say?
Rob Leone:Without.
Rob Leone:Without being thrown under the bus, without.
Jasmine Booker:Being, oh, my gosh, you're getting in trouble for it.
Jasmine Booker:Or feeling.
Rob Leone:Yes.
Rob Leone:Retribution.
Rob Leone:That was the word that was on my tongue.
Rob Leone:It's been a long day without retribution, without bullying, without, you know.
Rob Leone:And you've been in organization, retaliation.
Rob Leone:Exactly.
Rob Leone:You've seen people in rooms say, hey, anyone else having an opinion right now or an idea how we should handle this?
Rob Leone:And no one wants to speak up because they know that that supervisor is going to lay into them or going to make fun of them or whatever.
Rob Leone:And that is Low psychological safety.
Rob Leone:So when we package those four things together, if I could have a manager, practice, consistency, accountability, connection, and psychological safety, my people are going to be better off.
Rob Leone:And what happens is along the drivetrain.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:That's the middle section there.
Rob Leone:We have four other elements.
Rob Leone:We enjoy meaningful work, compassion and vulnerability.
Rob Leone:And those are the human essence, those really human aspects of people.
Rob Leone:And those are the things that are really going to make the work get done and get done well.
Rob Leone:That I want you to have joy in the workplace.
Rob Leone:You can't have joy if I'm not consistent.
Rob Leone:I'm not holding people accountable.
Rob Leone:I'm not connecting, and then I'm not creating psychological safety.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:You also have an appreciation for vulnerability.
Rob Leone:I need to be vulnerable.
Rob Leone:You will be vulnerable.
Rob Leone:And we tend to level up with each other as we start to see that.
Rob Leone:And that's what relationships are built upon, vulnerability.
Rob Leone:But also trust in the workplace is if I disclose, look, I'm having a tough week.
Rob Leone:Anyone else having a tough week?
Rob Leone:I know we had a, you know, we lost power or whatever, and then we're behind and we're struggling to keep up.
Rob Leone:It's just been tough on me.
Rob Leone:Anyone else feeling pretty beaten up?
Rob Leone:There's nothing wrong with that.
Rob Leone:And having that with your staff as a leader, you're connecting with them.
Rob Leone:You're sharing the, the emotional load of the experience.
Rob Leone:So it's, it's, it's.
Jasmine Booker:Well, and it shows that basically you understand that they might be going through the same struggles because what if it was hard on you and you're struggling with it too.
Jasmine Booker:You're also a manager.
Jasmine Booker:Think managers forget that they're humans, too.
Jasmine Booker:And they also need shoulders to, you know, kind of lean on as well.
Jasmine Booker:That doesn't necessarily mean, like, put everything on your employee's shoulders, but you can share back and forth ideas like, hey, was this hard for anybody else?
Jasmine Booker:Because I kind of feel like it was hard for everybody.
Jasmine Booker:And if that's the case, y'all can have an open communication about that.
Rob Leone:Yeah.
Rob Leone:It doesn't mean we just shut up, close down shop for the day.
Rob Leone:It just means that we're sharing and we're connecting.
Rob Leone:And you are.
Rob Leone:Right.
Jasmine Booker:15 minute meeting, you know.
Rob Leone:Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Rob Leone:We actually, with our clients, when we do workshops, we do an emotion check in.
Rob Leone:And so there's this thing called a moodometer, and there's about 100 emotions.
Rob Leone:And, you know, far sides are red, green, blue, yellow.
Rob Leone:Yeah, I think so.
Rob Leone:And what, what happens is as you move towards the center, the colors change.
Rob Leone:But we check in with people to see how they're feeling today.
Rob Leone:Like, how are you feeling?
Rob Leone:Pick two emotions and it's.
Rob Leone:You could be, I'm happy and stressed, or I'm anxious and glum.
Rob Leone:You know what I mean?
Rob Leone:And it helps.
Rob Leone:It helps you read the room so you know how to handle the next steps.
Rob Leone:So if your team is super stressed, maybe I need to change it up and lighten the mood.
Rob Leone:Maybe I'm gonna bring in donuts, put some more music on.
Rob Leone:We'll just lighten the atmosphere here because people are dealing with some heavy, heavy stuff, right?
Rob Leone:So it's just a way to connect with people.
Rob Leone:I also know in my staff and my people, my clients will.
Rob Leone:They'll do a check in, and then if someone's red and they're angry, it's not a good time to have a difficult conversation with them.
Rob Leone:I'm gonna let them.
Rob Leone:Tomorrow, I'll come back to them.
Rob Leone:So anyway, getting back to our.
Rob Leone:Our model here, also, don't.
Jasmine Booker:Don't tell them, oh, you can only have two minutes to yourself, because I can probably gonna worsen their mood.
Rob Leone:Yeah, exactly.
Jasmine Booker:I mean, obviously don't tell them that.
Jasmine Booker:Take as much time as you need because they may not go back.
Rob Leone:Yeah, exactly.
Jasmine Booker:Let them know, like, hey, if you take a little bit more than five minutes because you're still not over it, come talk to us so we can talk through this situation and actually listen to them.
Jasmine Booker:Do not just be like, okay, get back to work.
Rob Leone:Yeah, or why don't you.
Rob Leone:Why don't you take your lunch now?
Rob Leone:Because it give you more time just to pull yourself together, you know, something.
Jasmine Booker:Or like, oh, hey, we see you're close to your break.
Jasmine Booker:Just go on your break.
Jasmine Booker:You just go ahead.
Rob Leone:Yeah, exactly.
Rob Leone:Okay, so the last two features are compassion, because I think we want compassionate people in our life.
Rob Leone:We want people to be empathetic and to understand they don't necessarily have had to live in our shoes, but they.
Rob Leone:What we want are people to.
Rob Leone:To at least acknowledge that, hey, at.
Rob Leone:At the very least, I don't know what you're going through or you're experiencing, but I know this is tough on you, so I'm here for you, right?
Rob Leone:And gives them that space.
Rob Leone:And then the last one is meaningful work.
Rob Leone:Just like joy, meaningful work is important that people need to feel like it's in line with their value, their goals.
Rob Leone:It's helping them accomplish what they want in life.
Rob Leone:Part of work is money, right?
Rob Leone:So we can live and have some fun.
Rob Leone:But that's not all of It.
Rob Leone:I want to have fun.
Rob Leone:I'll tell you, I didn't share this with you.
Rob Leone:I.
Rob Leone: bought a Angie and I bought a: Rob Leone:During COVID I gutted it.
Rob Leone:She and I gutted it and rebuilt it into this camper that has full electricity, refrigerator, sink, water system, electric awning, all this thing.
Rob Leone:Because I love working with my hands.
Rob Leone:And so that was meaningful work for me.
Rob Leone:I do a lot of, like, talking and teaching stuff, which I love.
Rob Leone:It's fun, but I like to see the fruits of my labor.
Rob Leone:And so I took.
Jasmine Booker:I took things and problem solving and figuring things out.
Rob Leone:Yeah, yeah.
Rob Leone:And I suspect there's a lot of people in your field that they enjoy working with their hands, so.
Rob Leone:So let's not take that away from them.
Rob Leone:Let's not erode that experience.
Rob Leone:That something they love with the stress and the drama of being a jerk.
Jasmine Booker:Yeah, yeah.
Jasmine Booker:Or like, don't try to derail people's experiences because you feel like one of the.
Jasmine Booker:Just real quick, one of the things that I was always getting whenever I was a claims adjuster is I would answer the phones and the people I was talking to would always say, oh, Yeah, I got 20 years experience knowing how to work on a car.
Jasmine Booker:And I'm like, okay, well, I know how to work on the same car, and I actually worked for the manufacturer and know what you did was incorrect, and that doesn't work.
Jasmine Booker:And so, you know, you.
Jasmine Booker:You have these conversations, but then you turn around and the managers kind of do the same exact thing to you.
Jasmine Booker:And it's as if all the hard work that you just did, all of the knowledge that you inquired throughout your career didn't matter.
Jasmine Booker:It didn't matter that you too knew what they were talking about or what they were doing.
Jasmine Booker:And so I feel like with managers, they tend to not.
Jasmine Booker:They tend not to just step on your toes, but they tend to just throw everything that you know out of the way because maybe that's not.
Jasmine Booker:That's not what they believe at that point, or it's a hard conversation that you're going to have to have with them in a way.
Rob Leone:Yeah, it's tough.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:Because at the end of the day, we are all human and we are all.
Rob Leone:We all succumb to different stressors, pressures, behaviors, and even.
Rob Leone:Even the most awful person.
Rob Leone:That's a, That's a manifestation of some of the rough things that they're working through in their life.
Rob Leone:Right.
Rob Leone:And so I think it's important for Us to always have a little bit of grace and space in our heart for people, because all of us take our turns at not being the best versions of ourselves.
Rob Leone:And.
Rob Leone:And we're human.
Rob Leone:And it.
Rob Leone:Yeah.
Rob Leone:And it's important that we have a community around us to catch us, to help us, to support us, to maybe lend us a hand, because right now, I just can't do it.
Rob Leone:I need some help.
Jasmine Booker:And we also have to understand that sucky days are a part of life, you know, and also, you know, sucky calls or sucky clients or, you know, just understanding that everybody's going to have a bad day and the next day could be great.
Jasmine Booker:Or maybe you have to wait another month because there are times where that sucky day turns into a sucky month.
Jasmine Booker:But being okay with that and also having a game plan for when you get out of that sucky moment and being able to have, like you said, that community to come back and say, okay, listen, this month was sucky.
Jasmine Booker:What are we going to do different in the next month when you're not in that sucky position to do what's right, to get prepared, to get ready, because you know you're going to have a sucky month.
Jasmine Booker:We already see it.
Jasmine Booker:We got it.
Jasmine Booker:Cool.
Jasmine Booker:Next month we're going to do well.
Jasmine Booker:Yeah, don't just say we're going to do well.
Jasmine Booker:What is the plan?
Jasmine Booker:What is the action behind it?
Jasmine Booker:Or what is the goal that we can do and kind of pivot to doing better?
Jasmine Booker:We don't.
Jasmine Booker:We can't pivot.
Jasmine Booker:There's.
Jasmine Booker:Yeah, everybody likes the word pivot but doesn't know how to pivot.
Rob Leone:We, you know, we know that people do well with.
Rob Leone:Whether it's venting, therapy, counseling.
Rob Leone:The moment we move something off our chest, it's incredibly empowering for us in many instances.
Rob Leone:And so you're right.
Rob Leone:Like, you could end the month.
Rob Leone:And an activity we do with students and clients is called start, stop, and continue.
Rob Leone:You know, what is it about what we're doing, whether it's just this last month or in general, that we.
Rob Leone:We want to.
Rob Leone:Let's start doing.
Rob Leone:Do differently.
Rob Leone:What's something that we've been doing that we want to continue that's working and what's something that we want to stop?
Rob Leone:And we as a community work through those rules and those conversations to determine what's our best viable plan forward.
Rob Leone:And, you know, kind of like traditions, not all tradition is meant to live forever.
Rob Leone:And so we might make a decision in the workplace to try something out, and it might Just run a quarter and it's like, you know what?
Rob Leone:This is just too much heavy lifting.
Rob Leone:This is not working for us.
Rob Leone:It's time to sunset this piece and let's go on to something else.
Rob Leone:We don't need to be tied and locked into everything.
Rob Leone:Safety first, right?
Rob Leone:And then from there, compassion, support, vulnerability.
Rob Leone:These things will help, will help us be better humans and community members of each other.
Jasmine Booker:Absolutely.
Jasmine Booker:And I mean, that's even close to what I told you about earlier on our outside of the meeting, which was what I do, which is do it, critique it, fix and repeat is exactly.
Jasmine Booker:Sometimes you got to figure out what is working and what is not working.
Jasmine Booker:Whether or not you bumped your head doing it the hard way or whether or not you did listen to the advice and not bump your head the hard way and just going and moving forward because everybody's different and you don't know what is going to work until you try it.
Jasmine Booker:Until you do it.
Jasmine Booker:Exactly.
Jasmine Booker:So with all of this, what is.
Jasmine Booker:I always ask every guest, what is their biggest piece of advice that you have?
Jasmine Booker:For someone who is either struggling with trying to come to terms with anything, or just with this topic in general, what is one of your biggest pieces of advice?
Rob Leone:Don't stop learning.
Rob Leone:Be a student of life.
Rob Leone:And that could include being a student of leadership.
Rob Leone:That could be just a lifelong learner.
Rob Leone:You know, tune into every podcast you put out, you know what I mean?
Rob Leone:Like just there.
Rob Leone:There are direct benefits to us being curious and they help make us more self aware or they, it helps us become more self aware.
Rob Leone:And curiosity breeds patience.
Rob Leone:People need to be curious and be patient more.
Rob Leone:Curiosity helps us to connect with people that are different than our.
Rob Leone:Or maybe what they, they might look different than us, but after connecting with them, you learn that you have a lot in common.
Rob Leone:So, you know, just this growth mindset concept, learner mindset, be curious, don't stop learning.
Rob Leone:Find something to do, even if it's something totally out of right field.
Rob Leone:I took our family, we got scuba dive, scuba certified this summer.
Rob Leone:Something I always wanted to do.
Rob Leone:One of the things that I learned early on is in order to be a good team teacher, I needed to be a good student.
Rob Leone:And so even though I was teaching at a university, I was still taking courses, whether it's at the university or somewhere else.
Rob Leone:Practice being a student.
Rob Leone:So practice what it's like to be new, unknown, learn.
Rob Leone:Kind of like building my van.
Rob Leone:I had no idea.
Rob Leone:Learned it, worked on it, developed it, made some mistakes, bled a little bit.
Rob Leone:But you know, in the end.
Rob Leone:Pretty awesome work product there in the end.
Rob Leone:Same thing with life.
Rob Leone:Be a student of life.
Rob Leone:Read, listen and explore.
Jasmine Booker:And with that being said, how can everyone find you if they have any questions or if they really want to work with you?
Rob Leone:Yeah, sure.
Rob Leone:Okay, so our company website is www.black, the Color river, then the letter P and then the letter M.
Rob Leone:So it's essentially Black River Performance Management, but it's Black river P&M dot com.
Rob Leone:You get on that page, you'll have an opportunity to subscribe to our monthly newsletter where stuff like this comes out, podcasts come out, things like that.
Rob Leone:You read about some of the blogs I write.
Rob Leone:But once you're on that page, you'll find our email address and you just reach out to us and you have questions.
Rob Leone:Also on LinkedIn, if you're on LinkedIn under Rob or Robert, and the last name is spelt like lion L I O N.
Rob Leone:So Rob Leone on LinkedIn and you should be able to find me and connect with me there.
Jasmine Booker:And we'll also have the pictures and everything of the frameworks that we were just talking about because again, I love, love, love, love the picture of the framework.
Jasmine Booker:It actually makes a lot of sense to me.
Jasmine Booker:So whenever you actually described it, it actually, I'm a visual learner and a physical learner, so that actually helped me instead of just listening to it.
Jasmine Booker:So that was an amazing, I guess, picture of what you were saying.
Jasmine Booker:But yeah, thank you so much for being on.
Jasmine Booker:It was amazing.
Jasmine Booker:And honestly, I probably can't wait to have you on again.
Jasmine Booker:I don't know what else you're going to come out with, what else we're going to talk about, but I'm absolutely going to have you on again.
Jasmine Booker:So thank you so much.
Rob Leone:I loved it.
Rob Leone:Thanks, Jasmine.
Rob Leone:Spend time with.
