Motivational Frameworks: Tools for Personal and Professional Growth
In this episode of "Auto Talk with Jaz," host Jazmine Booker interviews Dr. Rob Lion, a professor, and expert in organizational performance. Dr. Lion shares two frameworks for improving motivation and leadership in the workplace.
The first is the "speedometer framework," which distinguishes intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. Dr. Lion emphasizes that motivation is an internal process driven by three basic psychological needs: competence, autonomy, and relatedness. Effective leaders should focus on creating conditions that foster intrinsic motivation rather than relying solely on extrinsic motivators like pay.
The second framework is the "CAR model" Dr. Lion developed: Competency, Autonomy, and Relatedness. He explains that employees' work performance can be impacted by deficits in any of these areas, both in their professional and personal lives.
Through a case study, Dr. Lion illustrates how examining an underperforming employee's CAR situation revealed personal challenges affecting her work. He encourages managers to show genuine interest in their employees' well-being to better understand and support their motivation.
Other key takeaways include the importance of fostering connection and enjoyment at work and recognizing that factors beyond pay, such as a positive work environment aligned with intrinsic motivations, are crucial for employee retention.
The episode concludes with an announcement from Dr. Rob Lion that the next installment will feature more motivational frameworks.
Transcript
Hi, thank you for tuning in to Auto Talk with Jazz.
Jasmine Booker:I am your host Jasmine Booker and I would love to remind you to like subscribe, follow if you haven't already and also be sure to follow me on LinkedIn for my newsletter called Auto Talk with Jazz where I give a lot more tidbits and also give a follow up for what my guests have stated on the podcast.
Jasmine Booker:Speaking of guests, we had a.
Jasmine Booker:We we are having a two parter where we are talking to Dr.
Jasmine Booker:Rob Leone, who is a 20 year vet in business management and leadership and he is sharing with us two frameworks which is the reason why this is going to be a two parter.
Jasmine Booker:Two frameworks that he uses to help leaders understand their employees.
Jasmine Booker:To Heather, to help better communicate with employees as well as go into ways that they themselves can be better managers, leaders for the team and help grow the team.
Jasmine Booker:So sit back and enjoy and can't wait for y'all to hear it.
Speaker B:Hello guys.
Speaker B:Thank you for tuning in to Auto Talk with Jazz.
Speaker B:I have here with us Dr.
Speaker B:Rob Leone, who is a person who has experience in leadership, management and organizational development of 20 years.
Speaker B:I am excited because he's decided to share with us two frameworks.
Speaker B:That one, the pictures are amazing because they deal with cars.
Speaker B:So obviously, you know, that was going to capture my heart anyway.
Speaker B:But he also decided to share with us how we can better our management, how we can better our leadership in the field.
Speaker B:Obviously this can go into any field, but these were some of the things that I feel like we absolutely need to hear in the field.
Speaker B:So y'all sit back and relax and I'm gonna pass this over to Dr.
Speaker B:Leon and have him just share a whole bunch of tidbits of how we can do better.
Dr. Rob Leone:Awesome.
Dr. Rob Leone:How you doing?
Dr. Rob Leone:Thanks, Jasmine.
Dr. Rob Leone:I'm great.
Dr. Rob Leone:I'm great.
Dr. Rob Leone:Thank you for having me today.
Dr. Rob Leone:I'm excited to share some of my thoughts.
Dr. Rob Leone:Thank you for the introduction.
Dr. Rob Leone:Let me set this up for some people.
Dr. Rob Leone:So I work with organizations in all different industries.
Dr. Rob Leone:So I've been doing this for over 20 years and, and what all these industries have in common are people that people are the lifeblood of the organization.
Dr. Rob Leone:And that if we learn how to work with people better, it's just like playing in the school playground, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:The better you do there, you know, the better your relations are going to be.
Dr. Rob Leone:And so that's what I specialize in.
Dr. Rob Leone:I teach at Idaho State University, professor of Human Resource development, which means I focus on the behavior and culture aspects of organizations.
Dr. Rob Leone:So improving performance, but not at the expense of the employee.
Dr. Rob Leone:It's trying to find a balance between the two.
Dr. Rob Leone:My wife and I co founded Black River Performance Management.
Dr. Rob Leone:Our motto is that we believe work should fuel the human spirit and not drain it.
Dr. Rob Leone:And we try to bring that into everything we do.
Dr. Rob Leone:We do a lot of work with leaders and organizations, as I mentioned, in all different industries that are concerned with improving their bottom line as well as maintaining and supporting their most valuable assets.
Dr. Rob Leone:And those are their people.
Dr. Rob Leone:Do you want to jump straight into some of the models and discuss that?
Dr. Rob Leone:What's on our agenda?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:So, one, I think the reason why I was incredibly excited about this was because I believe a lot in the fact that communication is important to any type of, you know, company.
Speaker B:Like, if you don't have good communication, if you don't have trust, if you don't believe in the people that you're actually working with, then at this point, why are you in business?
Speaker B:Like, what is the purpose of you working?
Speaker B:And so I really love this first framework, which is the speedometer framework.
Speaker B:And there's actually, I guess, two different, I guess two different things that you have on here that relate to each other that you can probably better explain than myself.
Speaker B:So if you can just explain what is the speedometer framework and why is this important?
Dr. Rob Leone:Wonderful.
Dr. Rob Leone:And, and we are going to put this out at some point, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:We're going to give people access to this.
Dr. Rob Leone:So please bear with me as I try to explain this.
Dr. Rob Leone:So the first thing looks at motivation, human motivation.
Dr. Rob Leone:And one of the things we have a tough time understanding is motivation.
Dr. Rob Leone:So motivation is probably one of the most talked about attributes in, in life.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:And it's, it's kind of one of those sexy workplace things.
Dr. Rob Leone:How do you motivate people or get them motivated, get their work done?
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:So start with one of my beliefs.
Dr. Rob Leone:My first belief is that motivation is an entirely internal process that I cannot motivate you, Jasmine, that you have to find that within yourself.
Dr. Rob Leone:But what I can do is create the conditions for you to have the opportunity to dig deep and, and to kind of to be motivated, to be intrinsically motivated at a high quality level.
Dr. Rob Leone:But sometimes there's things.
Dr. Rob Leone:So if I'm your boss, let's just use this as an example.
Dr. Rob Leone:There's things in our own personal life that I can't, I can't remove those barriers so that you can be more motivated.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:So one of the big mistakes and big challenges is that we try to tell people to keep their home life, you know, park it at the Front door when you come into the office or come into the shop.
Dr. Rob Leone:The reality is that that's much easier said than done.
Dr. Rob Leone:Like, it's tough.
Dr. Rob Leone:Like, we are healing emotional beings.
Dr. Rob Leone:And whether we believe it or not, that stuff's governing our body as we go through the day.
Dr. Rob Leone:So instead of trying to compartmentalize it and say, that's your home stuff, this is your work stuff, it's beneficial for managers to figure out, how do I kind of ride the line and accept that Jasmine might have something going on in her home life that might show up at work now?
Dr. Rob Leone:As long as it's infrequent, no big deal, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:And we work through that.
Dr. Rob Leone:So what we know is that we typically talk about motivation as an either or concept, either intrinsic, so totally internalized or extrinsic.
Dr. Rob Leone:Something from outside.
Dr. Rob Leone:Think about an incentive, like pay.
Dr. Rob Leone:You get a bonus if you do this.
Dr. Rob Leone:Or think about social pressure, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:High school.
Dr. Rob Leone:And what are the clothes you're wearing, what kind of shoes you wear, what music you listening to?
Dr. Rob Leone:And how much of that is your own decision versus how much?
Dr. Rob Leone:And if it's your own decision, that's internal, intrinsic.
Dr. Rob Leone:If it's the decision of the peer group or other people, that's external.
Dr. Rob Leone:So we typically talk about motivation as either internal or external.
Dr. Rob Leone:And this is really complicated because there's not a lot we can do with this as a leader.
Dr. Rob Leone:So most leaders can't get bonuses or raise hourly rates or even incentivize people.
Dr. Rob Leone:And what we also know is, based on the research, is that incentives, actually, they might work for the time being.
Dr. Rob Leone:Like, all of a sudden, look, I can make an extra $10 an hour if I speed up my pace of work, but I, over time will pull back if that $10 lowers back to regular, or if I look around me and see other people not working at the pace I'm working at.
Dr. Rob Leone:So we have this personal preservation aspect to us.
Dr. Rob Leone:So what is intrinsic motivation?
Dr. Rob Leone:Intrinsic motivation is entirely internal process of us navigating our space and finding the opportunities to thrive and to grow and to essentially reproduce, like these very organismic types of things.
Dr. Rob Leone:And all organisms have a certain intrinsic motivation, whether it's conscious or not.
Dr. Rob Leone:That's something else to talk about on a different day.
Dr. Rob Leone:So how do we determine what contributes to high levels of internal motivation?
Dr. Rob Leone:Well, what we know from science is that there's three factors.
Dr. Rob Leone:They're called three basic psychological needs that we all possess.
Dr. Rob Leone:All organisms arguably possess these three basic psychologically psychological needs.
Dr. Rob Leone:They might not have consciousness that we have, but they possess these needs.
Dr. Rob Leone:The first one is competence, the ability to do the job or the task correctly, consistently.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:So whether that's a task at work or a task in our home life, or for a single cell organism to thrive, they have to be good at living.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right?
Dr. Rob Leone:So basically, and, but in the workplace, look, my motivation is at the highest when I'm actually really good at my work.
Dr. Rob Leone:When I'm good at my craft, I feel good and I enjoy work that much more.
Dr. Rob Leone:Okay, so that's competence.
Dr. Rob Leone:The next one is autonomy.
Dr. Rob Leone:Autonomy means independence and agency.
Dr. Rob Leone:And that applies to my home life, that applies to my work life, that applies to the single cell organism we were talking about earlier too, to have independence, to choose.
Dr. Rob Leone:Now, we could get super philosophical, but the point here is that, look, if Jasmine, you're competent in your job, I should give you the autonomy.
Dr. Rob Leone:I should give you the space to do your job successfully.
Dr. Rob Leone:This is actually where micromanagement comes in and is a problem.
Dr. Rob Leone:So if you're actually skilled, competent worker, and I hover over you and correct your steps, that's removing an element of independence.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right?
Dr. Rob Leone:Removing an element of autonomy.
Dr. Rob Leone:And that is micromanagement.
Dr. Rob Leone:And that is found to drive motivation down because ultimately it's not fun.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:We really are fun seekers.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:So this is what we're trying to do.
Dr. Rob Leone:We're going to spend eight to ten hours a day at work.
Dr. Rob Leone:We might as well enjoy doing that.
Dr. Rob Leone:The last item is relatedness, basic psychological need of connection.
Dr. Rob Leone:Prior to Covid, loneliness was an epidemic.
Dr. Rob Leone:And I say this, and I feel bad saying this, but there's a lot of truth in this because I've lived this in my past.
Dr. Rob Leone:Just because you're with someone doesn't mean you're not lonely.
Dr. Rob Leone:Like that's, that's heavy, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:Like that's.
Speaker B:You can say that again.
Dr. Rob Leone:Yeah.
Dr. Rob Leone:And so that's why it speaks to this human need of connection and the importance of creating space for that in the workplace and the home place.
Dr. Rob Leone:Because for some people, work becomes really social event for them and it fuels that piece, it fills that cup.
Dr. Rob Leone:Let's be honest, I can't be everything for my wife, Angie.
Dr. Rob Leone:She's an amazing human, but she needs her friends to help fill off her cup.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:There's certain things that I can give her that they can't and vice versa.
Dr. Rob Leone:And sometimes that occurs at work, sometimes that occurs in personal life.
Dr. Rob Leone:The same thing is true with every employee.
Dr. Rob Leone:We need to find that balance.
Dr. Rob Leone:And that balance is a community of one.
Dr. Rob Leone:Yeah, that balance is all over the Place for all of us, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:So what are the three things I said?
Dr. Rob Leone:Competency, autonomy, and relatedness.
Dr. Rob Leone:What does that spell?
Dr. Rob Leone:Car.
Dr. Rob Leone:Which is awesome, because I love the fact that we're talking about this here, because I created this many years ago to help people understand motivation better and understand how to support their people better.
Dr. Rob Leone:So this is what it looks like.
Dr. Rob Leone:So I've had a client reach out to me and say, rob, I don't know what to do with Gloria.
Dr. Rob Leone:She's not hitting her marks anymore.
Dr. Rob Leone:She's not progressing at the level we need her to progress.
Dr. Rob Leone:I said, well, let's.
Dr. Rob Leone:Let's check her car.
Dr. Rob Leone:Did you check her car?
Dr. Rob Leone:And my client says, yeah, I checked her car.
Dr. Rob Leone:I said, well, let's.
Dr. Rob Leone:Let's check it together.
Dr. Rob Leone:Let's go through it.
Dr. Rob Leone:Let's talk about competence.
Dr. Rob Leone:Is Gloria competent?
Dr. Rob Leone:She's like, no, Gloria's not competent.
Dr. Rob Leone:It's like, whoa, okay, has Gloria ever been competent?
Dr. Rob Leone:So think about this in your own workspace, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:Like, if you've learned to change breaks and you're going to do the same system again, you don't unlearn it, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:Something gets in the way.
Dr. Rob Leone:Maybe the tool's not working.
Dr. Rob Leone:Maybe something sees something's changing the conditions here, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:So.
Dr. Rob Leone:So I said, so, is Gloria competent before, in the past?
Dr. Rob Leone:She's like, oh, yeah.
Dr. Rob Leone:Six months in, she was training the staff.
Dr. Rob Leone:She was doing great things, but she's not anymore.
Dr. Rob Leone:I said, well, let's.
Dr. Rob Leone:Let's be really strict about this definition.
Dr. Rob Leone:It's not that she's not competent anymore.
Dr. Rob Leone:It's.
Dr. Rob Leone:Something's changed.
Dr. Rob Leone:She's still competent.
Dr. Rob Leone:Something's getting in the way.
Dr. Rob Leone:So let's set that aside.
Dr. Rob Leone:Let's go to her autonomy.
Dr. Rob Leone:So something changed in the workplace because you can see how if you bring in a micromanaging supervisor and put that person over top of someone that's highly competent, that could erode the quality of their work.
Dr. Rob Leone:And so my client said, no, nothing's changed.
Dr. Rob Leone:No new supervisor.
Dr. Rob Leone:She has full independence as she did in the past.
Dr. Rob Leone:Said, okay, so that checks out.
Dr. Rob Leone:How about relatedness?
Dr. Rob Leone:13 drama?
Dr. Rob Leone:Something different in the workplace.
Dr. Rob Leone:Maybe hired someone that's changing the dynamics of the team.
Dr. Rob Leone:She said, no, nothing's changed there.
Dr. Rob Leone:It's all the same team.
Dr. Rob Leone:I said, okay, so we know competence isn't really a factor.
Dr. Rob Leone:We know autonomy is not a factor.
Dr. Rob Leone:We know related is not a factor.
Dr. Rob Leone:Did you check her car at home?
Dr. Rob Leone:She was like, what?
Dr. Rob Leone:No, I'm not checking her car at home.
Dr. Rob Leone:It's not my business to Talk about her home life and get into that stuff.
Dr. Rob Leone:I don't do happy hours.
Dr. Rob Leone:I don't do lunches.
Dr. Rob Leone:I don't do conversations with the staff.
Dr. Rob Leone:I keep them really distant.
Dr. Rob Leone:I said, well, that's one perspective.
Dr. Rob Leone:I like to think that your people are spending a lot of time at work.
Dr. Rob Leone:So I'd hope that you show a little bit more interest in their personal life.
Dr. Rob Leone:You don't need to get personal, but demonstrate an interest in their well being overall.
Dr. Rob Leone:I said, I want you to check her car at home.
Dr. Rob Leone:She's like, I'm not doing that, Rob.
Dr. Rob Leone:I said, please just, just open the door.
Dr. Rob Leone:Like just ask if everything else is okay at all because we're already, if you will.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, give me, give me the.
Dr. Rob Leone:Benefit of the doubt.
Dr. Rob Leone:And you know, like you already know, you've been having conversations with her saying, look, you're not performing.
Dr. Rob Leone:I don't know how much longer we could do this.
Dr. Rob Leone:You're not performing.
Dr. Rob Leone:I don't know how much longer we could do this.
Dr. Rob Leone:You're not performing.
Dr. Rob Leone:At what point am I going to just terminate you or exit you from the organization?
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:So you have this track record of conversation.
Dr. Rob Leone:I said, let use that as a part of your in to check into her personal life because it looks something like this.
Dr. Rob Leone:Hey Gloria, I know we keep talking about this performance stuff.
Dr. Rob Leone:You're missing these deadlines, everything okay at home?
Dr. Rob Leone:And just that, that's it, just do that.
Dr. Rob Leone:And she's like, I don't know, Rob.
Dr. Rob Leone:I said please just do that and call me back afterwards and let me know.
Dr. Rob Leone:Because what I do with certain clients is we'll do.
Dr. Rob Leone:It's not so much coaching as it is just troubleshooting and walking through things.
Dr. Rob Leone:She calls me back just like, Rob, I, you wouldn't believe this.
Dr. Rob Leone:She opened up and told me all about what's going on in her life.
Dr. Rob Leone:So you want to learn what happened to Gloria.
Dr. Rob Leone:So what was going on in Gloria's life was that her 19 year old live at home daughter is now pregnant.
Dr. Rob Leone:And so that could arguably be challenging some of her assumptions about her role as a mother in terms of her competence.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:Raising her.
Dr. Rob Leone:She is at odds with her husband.
Dr. Rob Leone:So you talk about relatedness, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:Connection that's eroding the quality there.
Dr. Rob Leone:And her mother in law is moving in.
Dr. Rob Leone:So you want to talk about autonomy, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:So the car at work checked out there.
Dr. Rob Leone:Nothing's really changed.
Dr. Rob Leone:But what we learned was the car at home was, had some issues and that's what we needed to better understand and so when we work with people and yourself and think about it, I'm not firing on all cylinders and I'm just not feeling it.
Dr. Rob Leone:How am I doing in terms of my competence, autonomy or relatedness at whatever it is you want to look at?
Dr. Rob Leone:And what I found personally, I found my relatedness was low before or my competence was low, or someone was hovering over me, or someone I was in a relationship wouldn't give me my space and my independence and was control.
Dr. Rob Leone:You know, all these things, think about it.
Dr. Rob Leone:All these things that are emotional and that are carried on our shoulder have impacts on us when we're at work.
Dr. Rob Leone:So anyways, what we know is that firing at high levels of C, A and R lead to high quality intrinsic motivation.
Dr. Rob Leone:And that intrinsic motivation is what we want other people, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:We want people working hard, we want people having fun at work.
Dr. Rob Leone:I know we don't often think about that, but come on, let's be honest.
Dr. Rob Leone:Eight to ten hours a day there something better be enjoyable, right?
Speaker B:At least have one laugh.
Dr. Rob Leone:Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Rob Leone:There's got to be some levity.
Dr. Rob Leone:It's not all about business performance and outcomes and stuff like that.
Dr. Rob Leone:So I'm hoping someone in the audience connects with this.
Dr. Rob Leone:Like this is what I want to do with my team because I know we have industries that have historical perspectives that don't necessarily fit this paradigm or this model, right.
Dr. Rob Leone:That, that just work hard and if you don't do what I say, we're going to move you on and with the next person.
Dr. Rob Leone:And we know that costs us time and time and time again.
Dr. Rob Leone:And just because we might pay more than the shop down the street doesn't mean that that's going to retain our good employees.
Dr. Rob Leone:So those are the three factors that factor into high quality intrinsic motivation.
Dr. Rob Leone:So Jasmine, you're talking about the speedometer, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:So think about in the car that has that rainbow, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:The speedometer.
Dr. Rob Leone:All of a sudden I was thinking of like the old, like IROX beds and stuff that were, that were vertical.
Dr. Rob Leone:Those don't work.
Dr. Rob Leone:So think about the rainbow speedometer.
Dr. Rob Leone:So what we have is we have four factors in that speedometer.
Dr. Rob Leone:At one end is intrinsic motivation.
Dr. Rob Leone:At the other end is extrinsic motivation.
Dr. Rob Leone:And once again, extrinsic motivation can be anything that's stimulated from the outside, whether that's social acceptance, incentives, things like that.
Dr. Rob Leone:Intrinsic motivation are those three pieces, those car pieces, right?
Dr. Rob Leone:So what about what's in between?
Dr. Rob Leone:We have two different factors in between.
Dr. Rob Leone:And we've created this model because this is where we make Some mistakes.
Dr. Rob Leone:And this is also where we have the most influence over people in our life.
Dr. Rob Leone:So we've already determined that managers really don't have a whole lot of say over extrinsic motivators, incentives.
Dr. Rob Leone:So how else can they cultivate high quality motivation in people?
Dr. Rob Leone:Well, what we look at are two different factors in the insight.
Dr. Rob Leone:We have imposition and we have alignment.
Dr. Rob Leone:Which one sounds more inviting, imposition or alignment?
Speaker B:Alignment.
Dr. Rob Leone:Yeah.
Dr. Rob Leone:Alignment means much more.
Dr. Rob Leone:We're on the same page.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:But let me think about, let me ask you this.
Dr. Rob Leone:You ever give someone some advice?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Dr. Rob Leone:And we like giving advice.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:We like getting, giving advice.
Dr. Rob Leone:We sometimes don't like getting advice.
Dr. Rob Leone:So what we know about the science is that people that want advice and ask for it are more welcoming of it.
Dr. Rob Leone:They enjoy receiving it.
Dr. Rob Leone:But if I just tell you, if I'm venting to you and then you give me your advice, I, I didn't ask you for your perspective.
Dr. Rob Leone:I just want you to hear me out.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:But why do we provide people with advice?
Speaker B:Either because we're trying to be helpful.
Dr. Rob Leone:Yep.
Speaker B:Or we're trying to feel some type of, you know, thing that we think is that we feel like we could help them with.
Speaker B:Or maybe we're trying to remind ourselves of that same advice that we should already know.
Dr. Rob Leone:Yeah.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:This is a refresher for me.
Dr. Rob Leone:Don't do what I did.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Dr. Rob Leone:So, but I think, I think your first example is spot on.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:Like that we've earned our lumps.
Dr. Rob Leone:I made mistakes I don't want.
Dr. Rob Leone:I want to shortcut your life experiences so you don't have to make the same mistakes that I did.
Speaker B:So let me do what I did.
Jasmine Booker:Don't do.
Dr. Rob Leone:Let me just do what I say.
Dr. Rob Leone:Don't do what I do.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:Or don't do what I did.
Dr. Rob Leone:And that's, that's called imposition.
Dr. Rob Leone:So what I'm doing now is I'm imposing.
Dr. Rob Leone:So you think about, I have a couple boys, and if I tell them what I think they should be doing, you better go to college or don't drive fast or those are all directives which are tied to demotivation.
Dr. Rob Leone:And we know, like when we tell children or teenagers what not to do, what happens, Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:So that never works out well.
Dr. Rob Leone:So I can't live in that imposition space.
Dr. Rob Leone:But a lot of leaders do, right.
Dr. Rob Leone:They can't do anything about the extrinsic rewards.
Dr. Rob Leone:So they move into imposition, they move into this direction phase which says, jasmine, I need you to do this, Jasmine, go get that, Jasmine.
Dr. Rob Leone:Accomplish this.
Dr. Rob Leone:And they think they're being helpful because they're providing direction.
Dr. Rob Leone:But what they don't realize is that they failed to build some alignment with you so that you realize why this is important.
Dr. Rob Leone:And so we turn to imposition frequently.
Dr. Rob Leone:Because it's a time saver.
Dr. Rob Leone:Yes.
Dr. Rob Leone:You know, just tell me what to do.
Dr. Rob Leone:Except for people don't want to just be told what they do.
Dr. Rob Leone:They want to understand why they should do it and what's in it for them.
Speaker B:And it also.
Speaker B:I just want to add this in.
Speaker B:For some people, just because you did it eight years ago does not mean.
Dr. Rob Leone:Yeah, right.
Speaker B:I just want to add that in there.
Speaker B:Do not tell me, oh, eight years ago.
Speaker B:Whenever I was on the front lines, I knew how to do it.
Speaker B:No, that was eight years ago with a different set of rules.
Speaker B:Yeah, you weren't even manager back then.
Speaker B:You were here.
Speaker B:And there's a whole bunch of laws that you have now put in place that were not there whenever you did this.
Dr. Rob Leone:And by the way, we don't know if you were actually really that good at when you were doing it.
Speaker B:You know, I'm not going to add that in there, but we're in the.
Speaker B:My favorite one.
Speaker B:Oh, we were the original people to put this in place.
Speaker B:And obviously you're now trying to fix some things that the original didn't know to do.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're still not doing it because you're now managing it.
Speaker B:You're not do the doers of it.
Speaker B:So that's also a whole nother conversation.
Speaker B:I would like to put that out there.
Speaker B:Do not remind us that you did this eight years ago and you therefore know what we're feeling right now, because you don't.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right, exactly.
Dr. Rob Leone:So let's move more towards intrinsic.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:We want to get more internal.
Dr. Rob Leone:Because what we've determined is when people see the model, they'll either see the words imposed or an S and an E, which means somewhat external.
Dr. Rob Leone:Because if you think about it, what's the impetus?
Dr. Rob Leone:Where's the energy coming from?
Dr. Rob Leone:It's coming from the external.
Dr. Rob Leone:The person's trying to put it into you.
Dr. Rob Leone:It's external.
Dr. Rob Leone:So let's move into an SI category.
Dr. Rob Leone:Somewhat internal.
Dr. Rob Leone:It's not quite intrinsic because you'd figure it out yourself and you'd do it because you'd want to.
Dr. Rob Leone:But sometimes we have situations where me saying, jasmine, do this isn't the best situation.
Dr. Rob Leone:No, but you're still not doing it yourself because you didn't realize you needed to do it.
Dr. Rob Leone:But what I need to do is paint a picture of why it's important for us to accomplish this essentially together.
Dr. Rob Leone:That I need you to do this because I'm building alignment because this is something that we've committed to or this is actually something I want to give you that you've expressed interest in.
Dr. Rob Leone:You just didn't see it because my direction was so shortened to the point that you missed it.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:So that category is called alignment.
Dr. Rob Leone:And it's almost more coaching, advising.
Dr. Rob Leone:You know, I think of it as the leaders being a partner in the solution that you are still going to do the work.
Dr. Rob Leone:But I'm trying to help you understand why this is important, why this is relevant.
Dr. Rob Leone:And just because I said so, I could use that maybe once or twice.
Dr. Rob Leone:But over the long run, I'm not going to win anyone over with turning to that because it's my decision and I said so.
Dr. Rob Leone:Or I'm the owner, I'm the boss, I'm the manager.
Dr. Rob Leone:People want more compassionate organizations and people that are understanding.
Dr. Rob Leone:At the end of the day, you at least want to know that, hey, Rob, my boss might be rough around the edges, but I know he has my back.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:And that is something that's important.
Dr. Rob Leone:So anyways, so getting back to the speedometer, the far side is extrinsic.
Dr. Rob Leone:It's in the red section.
Dr. Rob Leone:We want to stay away from that.
Dr. Rob Leone:As we move into the imposition section, we're a little orangey color because we're moving away from the red, moving more towards the yellow because once we hit yellow, we're starting to become more internalized and at a better space.
Dr. Rob Leone:And then eventually green is where we want to be and that's intrinsic.
Dr. Rob Leone:And you know, we just, we people are learners and, and we're develop.
Dr. Rob Leone:We develop over time.
Dr. Rob Leone:So we need that kind of cultivation to help us move to that spot.
Dr. Rob Leone:So there is our car model.
Dr. Rob Leone:We use it with every organization we work with.
Dr. Rob Leone:I teach a motivation course at the university and I share it with them against the science of motivation because what it does is it takes the science topics and creates it in a very palatable way that people could go ahead and put it to work.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker B:And what I do love about that framework about motivation is a lot of people don't understand that there are multiple types of motivation and that sometimes the self.
Speaker B:Whenever you're trying to do even self motivation in your personal life, or let's say you're trying to build a habit.
Speaker B:Well, the reason why for anything is going to come back to what was your motivation to even start this?
Speaker B:Why are we even starting this habit is because you're trying to deal with health.
Speaker B:Is it because, you know, maybe you just want to figure out discipline, a discipline in your life, or maybe you're trying to save money or whatever.
Speaker B:You are literally trying to build something within your space, within your personal life or within work or whatever to become better.
Speaker B:And if you are able to find that same type of thing at work, that's even better.
Speaker B:So that's what I absolutely love about that whole process.
Speaker B:And so I do want to ask one question, and I think you kind of really did touch upon this, but if no one actually caught it, why is it important for leaders or managers to actually care about what motivates their employees?
Speaker B:And why is it important for them to understand what motivates them?
Speaker B:Because it kind of goes back to that manager you were talking about.
Speaker B:He was very against asking his employee what's going on at work.
Speaker B:What, did you check her car?
Speaker B:But that was.
Speaker B:You had to motivate him to do it, and you couldn't just tell him to do it.
Speaker B:You had to be like, well, maybe this.
Speaker B:And then once he actually did it, he realized what was going on.
Speaker B:You actually kind of used that to motivate him to do what you needed him to do for even the other part of that framework.
Dr. Rob Leone:Yeah, yeah, I aligned that person.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:As opposed to telling them what to do.
Dr. Rob Leone:I.
Dr. Rob Leone:I spent the time to align it because it wasn't quite intrinsic and it wasn't going to do any good for me to say, I need you to do this.
Dr. Rob Leone:Just do this.
Dr. Rob Leone:We create that alignment.
Dr. Rob Leone:So something I didn't mention, there's a lot of different motivation frameworks and models and tools and assessments and all different things that come from all different schools of thought.
Dr. Rob Leone:So I'm.
Dr. Rob Leone:I would consider myself a motivation purist or fundamentalist in the sense of.
Dr. Rob Leone:We talk about a lot of things that, that we use the word motivation a lot.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:Like we.
Dr. Rob Leone:We just throw it around.
Speaker B:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:I encourage my staff and my team and my students to protect motivation based on the car, those three things, everything else out there.
Dr. Rob Leone:You hear that people are motivated by learning, people are motivated by money.
Dr. Rob Leone:Once again, people are motivated by being in charge.
Dr. Rob Leone:Fancy cars, all these different things.
Dr. Rob Leone:I call all that other stuff preferences.
Dr. Rob Leone:And here's why we talk about motivation loosely all the time.
Dr. Rob Leone:You and I aren't going to be on the same page.
Dr. Rob Leone:So why is this important to the leader?
Dr. Rob Leone:It's important to leader because these three Basic psychological needs fuel our behavior and our ability to move up in life in terms of having a better sense of ourself and if I'm deficient or if my staff is deficient in any one of those three areas that is likely to carry into the workplace, whether it's from the workplace or from home, and interrupt the work.
Dr. Rob Leone:So if you're having issues at home, with respect to say your friend group and I'm your supervisor.
Dr. Rob Leone:Yeah.
Dr. Rob Leone:I need to at least be sensitive that there's stuff that might be going on at home that could be affecting your quality of work at the shop.
Dr. Rob Leone:And not like just, you know, it's, it's a level of awareness and open mindedness.
Dr. Rob Leone:I think I shared with you earlier that, and it might not have been during our recording that my belief is that the leader, the manager's job is to create the conditions for the people to be successful.
Dr. Rob Leone:And part of that is also helping them resolve.
Dr. Rob Leone:And I and work through some things that are outside of the scope of work.
Dr. Rob Leone:And I'm not saying be a counselor, I'm not saying pry, I'm just saying be aware that a person might not be as quick, let's say, to complete a task because their mind's being preoccupied by some other things.
Dr. Rob Leone:And then in an industry such as this where safety is an issue.
Speaker B:Yes.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:When your mind's not necessarily present, you open up yourself to more risk.
Dr. Rob Leone:So there's a reason why this is important for us to be concerned about this.
Dr. Rob Leone:Because it's the human thing to do, to be concerned about your people.
Dr. Rob Leone:Because people that feel supported and heard stay in the organization even if they make less because they feel that there's support.
Dr. Rob Leone:They feel like they have camaraderie, they have a sense of community with the team and that's important for people's well being.
Dr. Rob Leone:And we see this all the time, that people will leave a job anywhere for a quarter to, you know, $20 more an hour, even more, and then regret it because they were chasing the money and they didn't realize how good they had it in their current position.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And the thing that people do forget and tend to forget that sometimes the grass is not greener on the other side.
Speaker B:Yeah, but you shouldn't make it so easy for people to try to leave you knowing the fact that it's not going to be greener on the other side.
Speaker B:But if they're willing to make that jump and figure it out the hard way.
Dr. Rob Leone:Yeah.
Speaker B:We need to have the conversation of why they're willing to Jump and do that because we, we shouldn't.
Speaker B:You shouldn't be able to lose people that easily.
Speaker B:And then they'd be able to walk back in and be like, huh, I told you so.
Speaker B:We don't need them.
Dr. Rob Leone:There's a level of self awareness that's important here and humility.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:So sometimes people have good shops and they think it speaks for themselves.
Dr. Rob Leone:They don't need to take care of people and let them go if they want to go.
Dr. Rob Leone:You know, there might be some, yeah, there may be some accuracy and truth to that.
Dr. Rob Leone:This is a good gig.
Dr. Rob Leone:But at the same time, what are you demonstrating?
Dr. Rob Leone:If they were actually a good employee that just needed a little bit more care.
Dr. Rob Leone:Right.
Dr. Rob Leone:Maybe no one else cares about them except for this shop.
Dr. Rob Leone:The people on this team.
Dr. Rob Leone:That's important.
Dr. Rob Leone:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:People who make the shop their home because they feel like family.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Now, and I did get on the soapbox and talked about how we often say the words.
Speaker B:You know, the shop will always say, oh, we're a family here.
Speaker B:And one of my previous guests actually said the words of, well, it all depends on what type of family you got.
Speaker B:Because you tell someone, you tell the wrong person, oh, I'll treat you like family.
Speaker B:It's like, oh, don't treat me like family, but don't treat me like family.
Speaker B:But there are other people who have a great family.
Speaker B:If you tell them that and then you treat them like family and you treat them wrong, they're definitely going to leave.
Speaker B:Yeah, I tell people, just stay away from the conversation of treating them like family, but also in your head, treat them how?
Speaker B:Like a family supposed to treat people with respect, listening to each other, communicating effectively, actually providing that trust and comfort to come to you about an issue.
Speaker B:Like you said, whether it is business or like in the workplace or personally.
Speaker B:Because if I can't trust you enough to come to you when I'm having a hard time, why should I trust you at my good times?
Dr. Rob Leone:Right?
Dr. Rob Leone:Yeah, I like to.
Dr. Rob Leone:I push back on that family concept too, because everyone's family is different and some people are trying to get away from them and some people, you know, if I had the choice, I wouldn't affiliate with these people.
Dr. Rob Leone:I like, I like the example of a community better because community has all sorts of people.
Dr. Rob Leone:People you like, people you don't, people you have to respect and learn how to deal with things like that.
Dr. Rob Leone:But at the end of the day, the beautiful thing about a community is that they often rally together and pull through for that group, and that's why I like that example.
Jasmine Booker:All right, guys, thank you so much for tuning in.
Jasmine Booker:That was the first Park Tune back in for next week, and we will go over the second framework that Dr.
Jasmine Booker:Rob Leone has.
Jasmine Booker:Have a nice day.
Jasmine Booker:See you next week.
Jasmine Booker:Bye.
